NASHVILLE, Tenn. (LA Daily News) - ABC News Anchor Peter Jennings is apparently not the only celebrity to take issue with Toby Keith's chart-topping country hit, "Courtesy Of The Red, White And Blue (The Angry American)." Now, the Dixie Chicks's lead singer, Natalie Maines, freely shares her dislike of the song.
"Don't get me started," Maines told the Los Angeles Daily News. "I hate it. It's ignorant, and it makes country music sound ignorant.
It targets an entire culture - and not just the bad people who did bad things. You've got to have some tact. Anybody can write, 'We'll put a boot in your ass.' But a lot of people agree with it. The kinds of songs I prefer on the subject are like Bruce Springsteen's new songs."
Keith's spokesperson had "no comment" in response to Maine's quote. In the past, however, Keith has been quick to defend the song, because it was written in tribute to his late father, who served in the Korean war. "That's why I'm so defensive when somebody jumps on that song, you know," said Keith. "You get on that and you just turn into a commie heathen with me."
jbbenke,
I have no education myself? I'm a teacher working on my master's after graduating with an undergrad 3.9gpa. I'm not bragging but you attacked me. What are you education credentials?
mgdemarco
2003-12-17 14:21
We are all trying to make larger arguments here concerning foreign policy. The reality is that none of our viewpoints, left or right, can be can be considered wrong or right. We cannot say that another's opinion is correct or incorrect. We can only debate, sometimes accepting or disqualifying the data that we use to reach our conclusions.
jbbenke
2003-12-17 14:46
I started as a L.P.N (then elected to take R.N . classes, most being psychology courses). As I got more into Psychology I switched to Criminology then entered the Criminal Justice Program (A.S. Degree) - (Police Officer). I have a total of four years of college, but was in two different fields, and have two different views. Pych. nurses for example: treat a person with Anti-social personality disorder, (with criminal behavior), in a clinical setting, and see them as a victim of illness. A Police Officer does not see a person with a Antisocial personality as a victim, they see, the only victim to be the one that actully was injuried by the Antisocial person. A police officer does not like the insainity pleas. The police feel that a criminal with anisocial personality knows the differrence between right and wrong, and is simply evil, therefore is responsible. I have both of the above views on issues, but tend to feel the law enforcement view. I am not saying all personal feel the same way, but majority do, and that the above is what was taught in college. In this country, you may go to jail for a crime, get a insanity plea and go to a hospital, or be found guilty in court and get into a diversionary program. A criminal could spend time in a metal health setting or a drug/alcohol halfway house as part of thier prision time. It all depends what kind of crime, where, how come, ect. I have worked as a nurse a total of 4 years. I worked with the mentally ill and thier issues of chemical dependence. That experience has change some of my opinions and beliefs. I would like to become a detective in the future, but am presently home on the farm caring for children, and raising Quarter Horses. Thats ok for now.
jbbenke
2003-12-17 14:58
When the Government,which had a different president and leaders, gave Saddam aid, did the government know that Saddam was useing this money to commit wrongfull acts? When the rest of the government and people found out the truth did they not turn on Saddam and stop him from getting hand outs?
You are insulting to me just the same as you think I am. What you have wrote to me, could not in anyway be percieved as complements. You want fair? Then be fair!!!!
jbbenke
2003-12-17 15:16
In the future, I believe it will be proven that Saddan gave support to Ossama. This may be a personal opinion, but in the future it may prove to be fact. That is my point and when it is proven you will know. If it is never proven by the US, then it will alway be just a therory. I do believe the US had probable cause to link the Saddam & Ossama. Just because the truth has not be exposed to the people, does do not prove that there was no connection.
mgdemarco
2003-12-17 16:44
jbbenke,
Yes in 1983 the US government published a report saying that Sadam had used chemical weapons. Later that year, in december, Donald Rumsfeld met with Hussein to discuss continued plans against Iran. Hussein said that he was pleased with the meeting. After this meeting the US continued to provide Sadam deadly biological strans of chemicals. The US continued to support Sadam when they knew what he was doing to the Iranians and his own people. There is a great article on the BBC website detailing this and the possible embarrsement that the United States could fact in his trail. In fact, Sadam enjoyed full US support while he commited his worst atrocities in the early to mid-1980's.
jbbenke
2003-12-17 18:13
My point is.... the USA did realize that Saddam was doing wrong even tho it did not happen right away. Political power has change since then, and when the public found out the truth we were not happy. The USA in 1983 made a huge mistake that has come back to haunt the people in polical power today and realize what was done in the past was wrong. Most of Americas citizens did not realize that it was even happening until it was too late. Some of Americas government should have to answer for thier involvemnet, but that is those that made the chioces to support Saddam, not for the government and civillians whom were not envolved. I was aware that in the past the USA gave aid to Saddam. The people that were invovled should pay a price, but that does not mean all America should pay for mistakes, or that one should pay for a former leaders. Saddam has been in power for 30 years. America is hard to hold resposible due to the continuing change in power. The Corrupt leaders themselves should be held resposible in my opionion. There is no clear cut answer. The past leaders of the USA helped sabatage us today, but I think the Bush of today is trying to correct the misdeeds of the past and gain justice even if it is embarrasing to the American people. Justice needs to be served even with our past leaders. I have not always agreed with the things the US leaders have done. Some of these corrupt government leaders are still in power and should be taken out of thier position and face the music. There are so many people in all these countries on so many different sides. Some are good and some are bad, within all of these countries. Some counrties have more bad than good and vice versa. I am looking for the greater good. I live in a conservative part of the country and most poeple here are good. I would estimate at for every 100 that are good 10 are not so good. For every 1,000 there is one that is a major threat to society. Living in a rural communtity it seems that there are a lot of bad people and there is, but comparing all the good people to the bad, it is clear majority of people really are good at heart. I would think it is the same in other parts of the US. I do know that certain areas of the US have larger pockets of criminals per ratio. I think the rest of the world is similar.
jbbenke
2003-12-17 18:40
In 1983 there was good people in our Government that were against giving Saddam aid. It was not the entire Government that wanted to help Saddam. I do not know the ratio, but it could have been 60/40 I do not know. As you know the majority at the time ruled. That leaves a lot of good people maybe 40%, that even back then seen Saddam was a waste of our money. I have to wander how many of our Goverment leaders at that time ,1983 were mislead in thinking giving Saddam money was a good idea. I am sure that most that were mislead in 1983 realize that today, and the corrupt leaders are grasping at straws to justify thier actions.
mgdemarco
2003-12-17 21:53
jbbenke,
Yes I agree with you that there were certainly people in the governement who opposed aiding Sadam. Just as their has been oposition in the government regarding the support of countless tryants such as Pinochet, Suharto, and Somonza Sr. and Jr. Like you said, it is a shame that these people who stood up for human rights were silenced.
I think this discussion brings up a few questions that are difficult to answer.
When should the US intervene militarily in foreign affairs? Should it only be done when there is a perceived threat against the US, or is getting rid of an undemocratic leader always justification for military action? If we accept that trying to bring democracy to people is always justification enough then we have a lot of governments to overthrow. But then there would surely be negative consequnces of a policy such as that one. If we only act when we feel threatened then human rights abuses will continue because there are many tryants who torture their people yet they do not present a direct threat to the US. So, the real problem for all of us is after considering these factors what is the appropriate action???
jbbenke
2003-12-18 01:29
Good questions...... But I do not know...
Saddam is one of many that should be overthrown, but the US can not save the entire world, we would lose evertything if we tried. (that's what you mean, right?) We have to pick our battles carefully. Our main critia should be wither the opposition poses a serious threat to us. We must look out for number one first, then the others. That sounds unjust, but if we do not look out for us, who else is gonna? If the US were to lose power who would look out for the rest? This is just an opionion... I am really not sure what the right answer is because, I do not know what would happen if the US was no more. A new super power would take over....... Would it be a better society than ours or worse? I am guessing worse.......
jbbenke
2003-12-18 03:57
Here is a thought.....How does the US know Sadam had WMD? We know that in the past the USA gave Sadam WMD. What the US does not know, is where did Saddam hide them or who did he give them to? The USA does not want to point this out. The USA realized that they gave a massive amount of power to someone that was planning to stab us in the back. Old fable.... Once there was a young boy walking throught the woods. He stumbled onto a snake, that was cold, sick, and starving. The snake asked for help, so the boy took him home. The boy spent weeks nursing the snake back to health. The day came when the snake was again heathly. When the boy approached his friend the snake, the snake bit the boy. As the boy lay dying, he asked the snake" why, after all that I have done for you"? The snake replied "a snake is a snake." I feel that is what Sadam pulled. What concerns me even more is Ossama. Ossama and his followers believe that it is thier mission in life to get rid of us. They read the bible and believe that they are chosen by god to rid the earth of heathens like the USA. They hate us all, and read from the bible revelations, and confuss the statue of liberty for the ***** of Babaylon. They think the beast with the lamb like horns is a American buffalo. Read revelation and you will figure out thier thought process. I do not feel Ossama is Gods chosen people, but they do. Ossama and his followers really think all USA is evil and another Roman empire that will fall. Ossama believe old Rome was recreated in the US by spreading the faith of the old Roman church here in America. I think Ossama is deliuted. God's chosen people do not delibertly kill children just because they belong to a certain race for example. As a whole Americans do not believe in killing children no matter what race they are. I hope this is understood, I should write more of an explaination, If I could speak instead of type I would be able to clarify this further. I will go into more detail later. I does not matter if you personally believe in God or not. The point is that Ossama does and is changing babaylon to mean USA. Read revelations study the history behind Rome. Ossama scares me a lot because they are not fighting for greed like Saddam they are fighting for cause. So is alot of USA, but they are keeping things in perspective and not hating all, just fearing the threats.
jbbenke
2003-12-18 04:14
according to revelations you need to watch out for the guy/false prophet performing miracles. I have not seen Bush perform any miracles. ha ha Nor have I seen the sign of the beast 666 being pushed on the hands of America. This is all to heavy.........But Ossama's followers believe in this stuff, and believe it is happening now.
robbastard
2003-12-18 18:03
From jbbenke 2003-12-15 21:08
“It will not be long before the WMD are found.”
Thank you, most gifted soothsayer.
“Soon it will be proven that Saddam finiacially supported the terroist that claimed 911 and supported the terrorists motives.”
More evidence, less ranting.
Bush will also prove all he wanted was to end terror for all nations and is not after oil.
Really, now? What are his plans for Sudan? Liberia? North Korea? Libya? Burma? Cuba? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? And please explain the lucrative contracts awarded to Haliburton & other special interests, not to mention Haliburton’s overcharging? http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/25/news/companies/war_contracts/
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/12/11/sprj.irq.halliburton/
“Like the person that stated ‘Saddam was a evil man, but what gives the USA the right to invade’? The US captured a sociopath whom murdered, raped, and tortured thousands all over, including his own. I think that gave us the right. Why should the USA allow a sociopath to rein terror upon the world, when the USA can and did stop him?”
Bush did not invade Iraq because Saddam was a sociopath. The invasion was predicated on the notion that Saddam was in league with Al-Queda & was planning on using WMDs against us. Since concrete evidence has failed to surface, the Bushites have changed their tune to “Saddam had to go because he is evil!” If that were true, what about Kim Jong Il? Mummar Quaddifi? King Fahd? Charles Taylor? Fidel Castro? Omar al-Bashir? Alexander Lukashenko? Teodoro Obiang Nguema? Saparmurat Niyazov?
“Rob *******: Saddam and Osama are buddies, and did conspire against us. Why do you find it so hard to believe that two of the USA's ememies teamed up against us? It is very logical........ “
Please provide evidence for this collusion. Fundamentalist Muslims regard Hussein as an infidel.
“The USA does have proof that Saddam was envolved in 911. . . .”
Oh, really? Do us a favor & provide the smoking gun.
“Furthermore, the founders of this country modeled themselves and thier documents to show thier belief in God, and had the rights of humanity in mind,( plus the free will that God gave us), when they wrote the constitution and other documents.”
I would say that American democracy owes far more to the Enlightenment than the Bible. In fact, the founding fathers’ main defense of the Constitution, The Federalist Papers, doesn’t mention the Bible–but there are several references to pagan Greece & Rome.
“There were many religions to choose from, but the melting pot of America did believe in God and today it is still reflected by our money.”
Actually, the US was far less religious then than it is now. And as I’ve said before, “In God We Trust” did not appear on US currency until the Civil War: http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.html
“I am just thankful that there are still people in this country that have not lost thier moral, it is hard to keep moral without the belief in God.”
How’s this sound for morality: “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” That’s from Numbers 31:17-18, where your moral god orders the Israelites to slaughter the Midianites, burn their cities, & take the virgins captive. The chapter continues with God ordering a human sacrifice of 32 virgins. Bet you never learned that in Sunday school. Here, see for yourself: http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=NUM%2B31&showfn=on&showxref=on&language=english&version=KJV&x=18&y=7
“ I would like to know why the two of you are so against God?”
I’m not “against God,” nor am I “against” Peter Pan, Santa Claus, or other fairy tales. I am, however, very much “against” ignorance, illiteracy, & poorly conceived arguments.
“Even the people of Iraq believe in God...........including the terrorist in Iraq, thats the reason they attacked us, they believe we are Babaylon and that they are justified in destroying the USA. The see us as another Roman Empire. (Research the fall of Rome).”
Research your geography--Babylon actually lies in Iraq. And please explain how the fall of Rome is relevant to this argument.
“If the terroists were good and justified, the terroists would not have deliberatley killed our innocent civillians to include our children.”
Who said terrorists were “good” & “justified”?
“when it comes down to it, this war is about religion and moral....And who is right and who's wrong....”
I’m sure Colin Powell will be calling on your foreign policy expertise any day now. Tell us, O Wise One, which godless heathen we should go after next, and why?
“Both of you speak of hell.......... When you speak of hell you must know who stays there? If you believe in that individual you must be aware that hell could not exist without a God.... Maybe the two of you believe in only hell and the individual that stays there? I have to wander if you are rooting for the bottom side?”
I use “hell” as an expression, dear–not as an imaginary place of eternal torture. Let’s not get into the specifics of what and how hell is–you’re not familiar enough with serious Biblical scholarship to keep up.
“Saddam gave Ossama money and supported what Ossams was doing with it. (911) Which was planning attacks on the US.”
Please provide evidence of this arrangement.
“I'm not saying all of Iraq is corrupt, but there are terrorists killing our soilders right now.”
I don’t believe targeting enemy combatants is considered “terrorism,” no matter the methods used. Of course, I’m sure the British regarded many of our founding fathers as “terrorists.”
“Germany and France only disagreed with us on one issue, wither to invade. . . .”
And that was because the Bush administration failed to provide any solid evidence for an Iraq-Al Queda connection.
“I did not say God was included in the Consititution, but said, the people that wrote it, wrote it with God in mind.”
Wow! You mean Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Ben Franklin, John Adams, etc were able to contact you from the grave?! John Edward’s got nothing on you!
“You complain that I am uneducated?”
Let’s see: poor writing skills, lack of critical thinking, arguments based on emotion rather than facts, little knowledge of world affairs or geography. . . . I’ve yet to see anything to the contrary.
“Take your time and think, you do not understand what you read.”
Perhaps because your arguments are incoherent and/or invalid?
“Do you not care about people, justice, peace, the good of the world? Do you enjoy that people are terrorized and forced to live in fear?”
The question is, do you walk the walk? I seriously doubt you gave a damn about Saddam’s oppressed people before Bush invaded. Had Al Queda not been hiding out in Afghanistan, you wouldn’t have given a damn about the people living there, either. Write a few checks to Amnesty International or some other human rights organization before spouting forth any of your holier-than-thou bullshit.
“What makes you think you have all the correct information. Do you get classified information from the Government? No you don't. The US is aware of more than you can dream up on a good day. Do not underestimate your own country and what kind of eviedence or proof it has. You do not have the facts to make a educated arguement. You do not have that kind of link. Your agrument is based on your own assumtions, you can not prove me wrong , the USA will prove itself and prove what Saddam really is and what he and his men have done.”
So your argument is “just because I can’t prove it doesn’t mean it isn’t true”? You honestly expect anyone to believe you’re educated after that? What reason would the Bush administration have for keeping an Iraq-Al Queda connection classified?
“The constititon was wrote by person/persons who believed in God.”
So what if it was? It doesn’t mean they endorsed religion for everyone. Mein Kampf was also written by a person who believed in God–that doesn’t mean God’s a Nazi.
“In the future, I believe it will be proven that Saddan gave support to Ossama. This may be a personal opinion, but in the future it may prove to be fact.”
You “believe”? “Personal opinion”? “May prove to be fact”? My, my–you were so sure of yourself a few posts ago.
“If it is never proven by the US, then it will alway be just a therory.”
Just like no one has ever proven the existence of the Easter Bunny?
“Just because the truth has not be exposed to the people, does do not prove that there was no connection.”
Translation: “I’ll believe what I want to believe, no matter the amount of evidence to the contrary.”
Again, I am not a crusader, but I do believe in a greater good all the way around.
From mgdemarco
“In fact, Sadam enjoyed full US support while he commited his worst atrocities in the early to mid-1980's.”
Here’s one of many links supporting you:
http://www2.burstnet.com/cgi-bin/ads/ad2624a.cgi/1995/RETURN-CODE
More from jbbenke:
“Some of Americas government should have to answer for thier involvemnet, but that is those that made the chioces to support Saddam, not for the government and civillians whom were not envolved. I was aware that in the past the USA gave aid to Saddam. The people that were invovled should pay a price. . . .”
So you admit that George Bush Sr should be brought up on charges of aiding & abetting? Quoted from the link above: “ABC News Nightline opened last June 9 with words to make the heart stop. ‘It is becoming increasingly clear,’ said a grave Ted Koppel, ‘that George Bush, operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into the aggressive power that the United States ultimately had to destroy.’”
“Saddam has been in power for 30 years. America is hard to hold resposible due to the continuing change in power.”
Just because there’s a change in political office at the top does not mean that those in non-elected positions of authority hand their jobs over to someone new. Even if they change jobs, they often continue to serve as power players. Bush Sr served as a Congressman, UN Ambassador, & CIA Director before becoming VP in 1980.
“The past leaders of the USA helped sabatage us today, but I think the Bush of today is trying to correct the misdeeds of the past and gain justice even if it is embarrasing to the American people. Justice needs to be served even with our past leaders.”
So George Jr should go after his daddy?
“I have not always agreed with the things the US leaders have done. Some of these corrupt government leaders are still in power and should be taken out of thier position and face the music.”
Like Don Rumsfeld & **** Cheney?
“Our main critia should be wither the opposition poses a serious threat to us. We must look out for number one first, then the others.”
Kim Jong Il was & remains a far bigger threat than Saddam.
“How does the US know Sadam had WMD? We know that in the past the USA gave Sadam WMD. What the US does not know, is where did Saddam hide them or who did he give them to?”
Well, we never gave Saddam nukes or anything of that magnitude. Anything that he didn’t use up in Gulf War I (theUS-Iraqi war, not the Iran-Iraq Gulf War), or against the Iranians, Kurds, Assyrians, or other enemies would be unusable, unstable, and/or outmoded, considering this was 15-20 years ago.
“What concerns me even more is Ossama.
Too bad George Bush doesn’t feel that way.
“They read the bible and believe that they are chosen by god to rid the earth of heathens like the USA.”
They read the Koran.
“Read revelation and you will figure out thier thought process.”
You’d learn more about radical Islam by studying the Koran & Wahabism.
“I do not feel Ossama is Gods chosen people, but they do.”
The Hebrews are God’s chosen people.
“Ossama believe old Rome was recreated in the US by spreading the faith of the old Roman church here in America.”
If that’s true, why doesn’t he hate the Italians? Or South America, which has far more Roman Catholics than the US? I suspect it has more to do with economic imperialism. Not to mention our support for Israel.
“God's chosen people do not delibertly kill children just because they belong to a certain race for example.”
You obviously haven’t read much of the Bible:
“Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.” (1 Samuel 15:2-3)
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=1+samuel+15&version=KJV
“according to revelations you need to watch out for the guy/false prophet performing miracles. I have not seen Bush perform any miracles. ha ha Nor have I seen the sign of the beast 666 being pushed on the hands of America. This is all to heavy.........But Ossama's followers believe in this stuff, and believe it is happening now.”
You realize Osama & his followers are Muslim, right? And that the book of Revelation is NOT in the Koran?
jbbenke
2003-12-18 21:20
Rob *******: What was the first recognized religion? What was Second? What is the oldest written document? How many religions have branched off the original bible? How many religions have taken the original bible and changed it to what they think it should say? How many religions look at the original script s of the Bible and twist it in to what they what it to mean? Do you think God wrote the Bible? No, you probaby do not believe in god so you know man wrote it. I think man wrote the bible. Everyone knows man wrote the bible. The new testament is suppose to be like a common sense survial guide, many of the old Test. teachings of the bible are out of date, due to the way the world has changed. Do you think Ossama's bible and a christain bible do not trace back to the same orgin?
By the way Samual wrote the one passage you mentioned, not God.
Do not worry so much about me. I did say I would explain more, but later. By the way your little bits and pieces of the bible that you got off the internet are a far cry from reading the Bible cover to cover. Furthermore, I am tring to tell you, wars are about religion. There a huge speeches going on right now about International religious freedoms, and religous persection. Korea is number one on this list. Korea is persecting people for thier religous beliefs, also Turkey, there are many many. You do not have to like what I have to say. But thank's for the holier that thou... I now see how much holier that thou you really are. Your opionions suck, don't twist my words. If I had the time I would explain and spend more time on this, but what for? This does not change anything even if I win.
bta
2003-12-19 01:54
rob*******
I am impressed. Thank you for giving me new subjects to study.
I like it when you compare Osama and Bush,
God help us from these dogmatic lunatics !!!!
RobBastard
2003-12-22 16:18
From jbbenke:
"What was the first recognized religion?"
Recognized by whom? I'm sure you're thinking of Judaism, but there are a number of known faiths which predate Judaism, though few of them are still practiced today (Hinduism, for one).
From jbbenke:
"What was Second?"
You're probably thinking Christianity, but you'd be even more wrong than claiming that Judaism was the "first recognized religion." Christianity, though nearly 2000 years old, is still outdated by a number of currently practiced faiths, including Jainism, Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism, and Zoroastrianism, to name a few.
From jbbenke:
"What is the oldest written document?"
It's NOT the Dead Sea Scrolls, the oldest of which dates only back to the 1st or 2nd century BCE. Granted, the books of the Old Testament are older than that, but most Biblical scholars believe the oral stories that make up the Torah (the five books of "Moses," which most believe to be the work of multiple authors) to have been written during the Davidic Kingdom (about 3000 years ago). However, the oldest writing dates to around 3500 BCE, on pottery sherds found in modern-day Pakistan (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/334517.stm). There's also the writing fround at the tomb of "King Scorpion" in Egypt, dating to 3250 BCE (http://www.providencepictures.com/pp/press-scorpion-NYT.html), and clay tablets in Uruk (in modern-day Iraq) dating to 3200-3300 BCE (http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/oconnog/story/chronicle.html).
As for religious texts, there's the Enuma Elish (Sumer, moder-day Iraq), the earliest known version dating to about 1700 BCE (http://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/enuma.html); the Gilgamesh Epic (http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/), earliest fragments dating to about 2000 BCE (also containing the earliest known flood story), again from Sumer; the Rig Veda of India (about 1400 BCE); etc, etc.
From jbbenke:
?How many religions have branched off the original bible??
Many: Orthodox, Conservative, & Reformed Judaism; Roman Catholicism; Baptist & Southern Baptist; Mormon; Jehovah's Witness; Sunni and Shi?ite Islam; Methodist; Congregational; Amish; Mennonite; Messianic Judaism; Lutheran; Charismatic; B?hai; Presbyterian; Episcopal; Quaker; etc, etc. Judging from the pie chart found here (http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm), a little over half the world?s population follows a faith rooted, to some extent, in the Old Testament.
From jbbenke:
?How many religions have taken the original bible and changed it to what they think it should say??
All of them.
From jbbenke:
? How many religions look at the original script s of the Bible and twist it in to what they what it to mean? Do you think God wrote the Bible? No, you probaby do not believe in god so you know man wrote it. I think man wrote the bible. Everyone knows man wrote the bible.?
For info on when various books of the Bible were written & compiled, you might want to start here: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible1.html
From jbbenke:
?By the way Samual wrote the one passage you mentioned, not God.?
Samuel was YHWH?s ?chosen? representative?much like today?s religious leaders who claim to be doing God?s will.
From jbbenke:
?Furthermore, I am tring to tell you, wars are about religion.?
Most wars are about competition & control of resources?religion is usually little more than an excuse.
scott-the-shot
2003-12-27 00:39
It's the holiday season, unfortunately and it would seem you gentlemen have not had time to post recently. Ludicrously enough, I've read back nearly to the beginning of where all this feuding got started.
Now, I realize I'm a stranger here, but if I had to name anyone the winner, it would be Rob*******.
He consistantly and repeatedly amazed me with his knowledge of both pro-war and anti-war material, and his relevant bible quotes. He backed up his arguments with facts and even sources, like he was writing a damn college paper!
jbbenke wouldn't even get a runner's up or honorable mention prize, for their prolific and at times arrogant use of speculation and opinion in place of fact. it surprises me that he has made it through the courses he claims to have taken. I would have anticipated that college professors would have sent him back to high school for lessons in spelling, grammar, typing and essay-writing.
When I first started reading these posts, I was infinitely frustrated by the frequent ignorance I witnessed by you-know-who. I consider myself fairly in-the-know and was worried I would have to retort. But Rob******* managed to tear down every argument (if you could even call them "arguments") so i didn't have to. I'm impressed, to say the least.
wonderland_ahead
2004-01-03 05:35
I've personally had enough of Toby Keith to block CMT from my channel selection and permanently remove the country radio stations from my presettings.
It's not so much his political songs, Christ knows there's enough of them around, but what really irks me are his chauvenistic little songs about women.
What happened to *real* country music. If it's not poppy crossover artists it's outlaw wannabes whose **** songs make Eminem sound like an thoughtful social commentator.
And as for his "politics" Toby should spend a little less time playing with Photoshop and a little more time at the library reading up on international history and politics, because I'd be willing to bet he couldn't find Iraq on a map if there were big red arrows and smiley faces surrounding it.
bta
2004-01-11 00:58
Att the idiot who thinks Iraq war happened because of 9/11, or out of Bush`s goodness of heart and sympathy for poor Iraqi,
Go read these two reports one on CNN, another from BBC ;
-CNN .com, Sun/Jan 11/004
O`neil: Bush planned Iraq invasion before 9/11
-BBC.co.uk, Fri/ Jan 02/004
US ready to seize Gulf oil in 1973
bta
2004-01-29 14:29
jbbenke
Can you sleep well these nights?
Even though, if you say yes I would not be surprised !
What are you going to do now, to pay back your share of the crime ?
It is not too late , to get yourself educated.
mugsy
2004-02-01 09:04
Not to beat a dead horse here, but, back to the original idea....exactly what room does Natalie Maines have saying that the Angry American is ignorant and it makes country music look ignorant when she and her band made the song "Earl's Gotta Die" with an equally inane video.
Natalie has the Constitutional right to say anything she wants to, but, it doesn't mean that others can't think that she's an idiot for doing it...it's their right too. Toby's contention was that she when she said that she was ashamed to be from Texas because Bush was it was in front of an openly anti-American crowd and that she should come and say it in front of one his crowds after he sang "Angry American."
As far as Iraq goes....we're there and now we're not leaving until the job is complete, why doesn't everyone just support the troops that are over their putting their lives on the line. At this point it really doesn't matter WHAT your politics are.
christina2002
2004-07-26 19:08
The only unamerican thing that happened with the dixie chicks is you. Bashing them for bashing someone. Quite a hypocrite huh.... Well i dont believe in the war and i believe the truth is undercover many other countries are having ethnic cleansing but we dont help them. And maybe we should have listend to what Iraq citizens wanted. Certainly not democracey they believe america has become heathens and maybe its true... Its easy to speak that you believe in a war when you go home and sleep in your cozy bed and watch your forty channels. You arent a citizen you arent in the front line. You dont sacrafice our life. SO if youa re in favor of this war... why dont you go over seas and fight for it. That would show those women (dixie chicks) who (gasp a women spoke their minds) actually had an opinion!!
Dixie Chicks Rock dont back down girls
christina2002
2004-07-26 19:09
The only unamerican thing that happened with the dixie chicks is you. Bashing them for bashing someone. Quite a hypocrite huh.... Well i dont believe in the war and i believe the truth is undercover many other countries are having ethnic cleansing but we dont help them. And maybe we should have listend to what Iraq citizens wanted. Certainly not democracey they believe america has become heathens and maybe its true... Its easy to speak that you believe in a war when you go home and sleep in your cozy bed and watch your forty channels. You arent a citizen you arent in the front line. You dont sacrafice our life. SO if youa re in favor of this war... why dont you go over seas and fight for it. That would show those women (dixie chicks) who (gasp a women spoke their minds) actually had an opinion!!
Dixie Chicks Rock dont back down girls
Joe Cortina
2007-04-29 18:24
As a father, veteran, patriot and a man who risked his life in uniform BEFORE Mr. Keith was born - I am embarrassed to even identify myself as an American anymore when I travel abroad, Keith is the QUIENTESSENTIAL red-neck AmeriKan racist hate monger troglodyte potty mouthed morn. I wish i could appologise to every DECENT American for his disgusting ignorance and vile conduct. The young ladies that he cowardly slandared with his vile toung shoudl be rendered an appology as well.
In the FIRST place Mr. 'moron'. - the animals in our Govt. - our war criminal BY DEFINITION President - and our murdering rapist soldiers have MURDERED more than 500,000 totally innocent non-combatant civilians who have never done ANY HARM TO ANY AMERICAN - PERIOD. After I was commander of operational detachment A-_32 20th SFG - 1st SFG Airborne - I spent some 20 years experience in geo-political intel work. That means i ALSO 'walked the walk'.
The only Americans left who have any doubt that the 9-11 disaster was anything other than an inside job - HIGH TREASON by our OWN govt. - are so stupid that they are sharing brains and need to be watered instead of fed.
If I were a walking hamburger Neanderthal crude God-mocking moron like Toby Keith - I would at LEAST have the common decency to keep my filthy mouth shut and go drink beer and barroom brawl - or whatever else i did best.
EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN UNIFORM THA HAD DIED IN THE MID-EAST at the bequest of our coward-in-chief - has done so in vain - PERIOD!!
All we have done is to make enemies out of friends and make friends out of enemies. MURDERING AND RAPING AND PILLAGING is NOT patriotism! I have spent time in the Mid-East - and I don't mean in night clubs and bars!
If you REALLY want to do something that would please God be good for the country and at least reduce the world-wide hatred that we have earned by our viscious cruel murderous ocupation of other people's SOVERIGN nations - ONLY FOR THE BENEFIT OF ISRAEL - then make songs - PEAL PATRIOTIC Songs about getting the hell out of other peoples homes and cities.
We are NOT wanted there - any more than we would want out homes destroyed and our daughters raped and our culture destroyed by a foreign power.
I didn't learn these lessons at fraterity parties or after football games - getting drunk and laid and drugged out at wild parties. I learned these lessons in REAL LIFE - where the rubber meets the road.
Stop acting like a nation of imbecilic morons with mindless profane cliches of bravado. Start acting like grown up responsible informed American citizens. STOP THE IGNORANCE - before people like you take us to the ash heap of history!
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was - and never will be."- Thomas Jefferson
amybabycakes
2007-08-19 13:06
Natalie is the best thing that ever happened in the states. Bush is a war hungry president who doesnt care what happens to America. He is stupid and will go to war with anyone just to make money. I think the Dixie Chicks are the best band out there. What ever happened to "The Free Country." Natalie spoke freely and look where it got her. America is no free country. Bush is just adding fuel to the terrorists and they will keep coming and keep killing. One day they will strike again and maybe it might be your family they target. You wait and see. Then you will see how many people are bashing the Dixie Chicks because they are right. I am ashamed of bush and anyone who thinks he is a good president.
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (LA Daily News) - ABC 
